[PAO] CAP-PAO Digest, Vol 64, Issue 1
Lt Col Annette Carlson
pao at pawg.cap.gov
Mon Jul 21 06:25:04 CDT 2014
Hi all...
I'm seriously reconsidering my role in CAP. For a volunteer organization
with such an overwhelming majority of the people-power lying on
the volunteer side of the scale... 60,000 volunteers vs ~200 paid staff, I
have witnessed over the past years the increase in costs shifted to the
volunteer. As a volunteer, my pockets are not deep enough to support the
corporate payroll.
On Monday, July 21, 2014, <cap-pao-request at lists.sempervigilans.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: National Board (jaimielhenson at fuse.net <javascript:;>)
> 2. Re: National Board (Tom Cooper)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 23:53:11 -0400 (EDT)
> From: jaimielhenson at fuse.net <javascript:;>
> To: CAP Public Affairs Officers <cap-pao at lists.sempervigilans.org
> <javascript:;>>
> Subject: Re: [PAO] National Board
> Message-ID:
> <
> 1876205055.57695803.1405914791829.JavaMail.root at md10.cincibell.synacor.com
> <javascript:;>>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I will take all of those thoughts with me. I wish I had been printing
> everyone's responses...
>
> Jaimie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Alice Mansell" <alice at mansell.com <javascript:;>>
> To: "CAP Public Affairs Officers" <cap-pao at lists.sempervigilans.org
> <javascript:;>>
> Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2014 5:03:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [PAO] National Board
>
> Jaime, Thanks for working to improve things for us who will not be there!
>
> I've been a member of CAP since 1987 and gone to a bunch of national
> conferences since 1998. Didn't go to one until I had a very specific reason
> to interact with particular people on ES and legal issues I cared about
> deeply. Here are some random thoughts:
>
> - If you want to make an impact on national level, the conventions are
> almost mandatory, especially for issues which may take years to resolve. It
> can be very fun to spend time with fellow members working on things you
> care about together.
> - Many go just to tick a box for promotion, silently come and silently
> leave, while it seems more than half or more who go are the same people
> with the same ideas and agendas.
> - A very high percentage who go wear AF style uniforms covered with
> ribbons but way out of "weight and balance" the entire conference, sadly,
> including many National and wing command staffs. Former and current
> military attendees glower all over the venue.
> - The most active local volunteers who do the most work in the the field
> virtually never take the time and money to go to national conventions
> unless they can sleep at home or carpool and share hotel rooms with fellow
> unit members. Most of them go just once and leave disgusted declining to
> wade in to fix national issues.
>
> - We are most often stuck in a rut of Only Big or Hub Airport Venues. Why
> not a smaller airport town in a new location with killer hotel rates? Do
> smaller airport venues always prove a bust? Vegas airfares are attractive,
> but hotel rates over $100 are surprising.
> - There are some odd written and unwritten rules about who can fly in CAP
> aircraft from out of state to a convention. I've never seen CAP try to
> organize an all-come fly-in with member-provided aircraft with or without
> help from cheaper military field AvGas and overnight costs. More often than
> not, most CAP national leadership I've seen wants USAF to disappear down a
> dark hole instead of building mutually beneficial relationships with each
> other.
>
> - The ES, AE and Cadet silos have amazingly thick walls and the
> conventions have very few activities to break those walls. Maybe it will
> take an Oshkosh-style airlift to punch holes in those walls?
> - Nickel and diming members for courses which can be held during the
> conference must be included in the registration fee to encourage and enable
> more members to come.
> - My local wing members have been offered free registration at somewhat
> short notice to get enough CAP vehicles and drivers there to "ferry VIPs"
> and do other "volunteer" jobs. That offer raises disturbing thoughts...
>
> Regards to all,
> Alice
>
> Alice Mansell, LtCol, CAP
> California
>
>
> On Sunday, July 20, 2014, < jaimielhenson at fuse.net <javascript:;> > wrote:
> > I agree with everything being said on this thread; however, we probably
> need to talk about it in a more formal way so those making the decision on
> where to hold Nationals is hearing from the rank and file. I am privileged
> to get to go to Nationals this year, and will look for an opportunity to
> address this with the powers that be.
> >
> > Look for a follow up sometime after Nationals...
> >
> > Jaimie Henson, Maj.
> > Kentucky
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: "DAVID MOSELEY" < kd4ios at embarqmail.com <javascript:;> >
> > To: "CAP Public Affairs Officers" < cap-pao at lists.sempervigilans.org
> <javascript:;> >
> > Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2014 1:57:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: [PAO] National Board
> >
> > Sadly, this is an example of why people say sarcastically that CAP=Come
> And Pay.
> >
> >
> >
> > The comments about approaching retirement are true. I've been retired
> since 1999 and can't afford to go to the National Boards, or rather, I
> choose not to spend my resources on something so expensive.
> >
> >
> >
> > My father, a CAP member for years said once when the subject of the
> increasing costs of belonging, "The day I pay that kind of money, there
> will be a band on Cloud Nine, playing, "Who In The H**** Would Have Thought
> It!"
> >
> >
> >
> > Looking at the number of our fellow blue suiters who have left our ranks
> should cause some serious discussions about the costs to members. We now
> have less than half the members we had years ago. Before some gets their
> panties in a wad because I'm not exactly correct, in the last 59 years that
> I've been a member, I've seen the numbers drop, and the sad thing is that
> there is no way to do an exit interview as most members who leave just fold
> their tent and never tell anybody. They just don't renew, don't come to
> meetings, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > That puts the decision makers in a quandary.
> >
> >
> >
> > Realizing how many people are gone should tell us that something is
> seriously wrong.
> >
> >
> >
> > The problem is above my pay grade.
> >
> >
> >
> > The Lt. said he didn't want to appear to be complaining, but maybe that
> is exactly what is needed.
> >
> >
> >
> > FWIW.
> >
> >
> >
> > David Moseley, Lt Colonel, CAP
> >
> > Commander Emeritus, Lake Composite Squadron,
> >
> > Leesburg, FL
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Subscribed Email Address: JaimieLHenson at fuse.net <javascript:;>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 23:59:26 -0700
> From: "Tom Cooper" <flyerthom at gmail.com <javascript:;>>
> To: "CAP Public Affairs Officers" <cap-pao at lists.sempervigilans.org
> <javascript:;>>
> Subject: Re: [PAO] National Board
> Message-ID: <F753C8A547AB43EEBC05EAD153F1D8AB at TomsPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> One travel consideration is ease. Can people get there direct or with few
> connections.
> Tom Cooper
>
> From: D Miller
> Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2014 8:39 AM
> To: CAP Public Affairs Officers
> Subject: Re: [PAO] National Board
>
> A few years back, the National Conference was held in Louisville,
> Kentucky, a smaller city. Was also more centrally located so many members
> were able to drive.
>
> What did everyone think about that venue?
>
> DAVID A. MILLER, Lt Col, CAP
> Deputy Director of Public Affairs, MOWG
> dtamnet at gmail.com <javascript:;>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 10:24 AM, lockit3 <lockit3 at att.net <javascript:;>>
> wrote:
>
> Thank you Lt. Col. Copenhaver for bringing this subject up.
>
> The fact of the matter is, that even if these rates are not "terribly
> out of
> line" for a conference this size, it is still unaffordable for many of
> our
> members, me included. If we pay for the meeting hall and any peripheral
> rooms needed for the breakout sessions, or whatever we are calling them
> this
> conference and the hotel knows it has "X" amount of rooms guaranteed,
> concessions should be able to be reached on the room rate for members. If
> the facility will not make such concessions because it is Las Vegas and
> they
> will get that rate from someone then let them get it from someone else.
> We
> do not have to conference in Las Vegas.
>
> First of all, it has been my experience that if you have time to go to
> the
> activities that are available outside of the conference, you are not
> attending the conference. My answer that would be take a vacation. While
> other cities may not have the outside venues, they could handle the size
> of
> our event and perhaps for a lesser price. I have concerns about meeting
> somewhere like Vegas anyway. As concerned as we are about the image of
> Civil
> Air Patrol and the image that casts on the Air Force, is this really a
> good
> idea.
>
> If we save on the price of the hall and classrooms, then maybe our fee
> could
> at least cover the banquet and everyone could attend. A Spaatz cadet from
> our Wing is National Cadet of the Year and most of our Wing members will
> not
> see him receive the award because we cannot afford the conference let
> alone
> an additional fee for a banquet that should be included.
>
> I did not intend this to sound like a gripe session, but sometimes I
> think
> in an effort to look like an organization of high prestige, we forget
> that
> our members are volunteers, mostly of middle America. We need to get
> back to
> servicing the needs of the members who service the needs of our country.
>
> With respect,
>
>
> Curtis "Wayne" Hooks 1st Lt.
> Civil Air Patrol
> FLWG Online Newsfeed Manager
> Group 1 Public Affairs Officer
> Group 1 Recruitment and Retention Officer
> Tallahassee Composite Squadron
> Ser FL-432
> Public Affairs Officer
> Recruitment and Retention Officer
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cap-pao-bounces at lists.sempervigilans.org <javascript:;>
> [mailto:cap-pao-bounces at lists.sempervigilans.org <javascript:;>] On
> Behalf Of Wm and
> Kandyce Lewis
> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 1:31 PM
> To: 'CAP Public Affairs Officers'
> Subject: Re: [PAO] National Board
>
> I have done conferences for our wing and I don't have prices like that.
> You
> can get hotels to not charge for the the rooms if you agree to so many
> rooms
> being rented by members, and guaranteeing so much in other costs. I
> know as
> I have done that in the past. You just keep telling them you need a less
> amount. I didn't check the cost of the dinner but I thought $70 last
> year
> was out of line for our members. And having gone many others must have
> felt
> so as well as there were lots of members eating at other places during
> the
> banquet as I saw them out and about. I realize we have more guest we may
> pay for national conferences but it can't be that much more. I suspect
> less
> and less members are going to national boards.
>
> And yes as members get closer to retirement they are looking at those
> costs.
>
> Kandyce Lewis, Lt Col.
> WA Wing Staff
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cap-pao-bounces at lists.sempervigilans.org <javascript:;>
> [mailto:cap-pao-bounces at lists.sempervigilans.org <javascript:;>] On
> Behalf Of Doug Barth
> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 8:50 AM
> To: 'CAP Public Affairs Officers'
> Subject: Re: [PAO] National Board
>
> I totally agree with Lt Col Copenhaver,
>
> In particular, as I move toward retirement and have more time to commit
> to
> my volunteer activities, I also am very cost sensitive.
>
> While I understand and encourage the value of face-to-face conferences, I
> think we should look more extensively into webinar/webex events, both to
> reduce cost to the membership and to increase the availability of these
> types of topics across CAP. Or perhaps video tape the presentations and
> post them to CAP website. I am not aware that we do that.
>
>
> Major Doug Barth, CAP
> Group II
> MDWG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cap-pao-bounces at lists.sempervigilans.org <javascript:;>
> [mailto:cap-pao-bounces at lists.sempervigilans.org <javascript:;>] On
> Behalf Of Karen
> Copenhaver
> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 9:44 AM
> To: cap-pao at lists.sempervigilans.org <javascript:;>
> Subject: [PAO] National Board
>
> Dear Fellow PAOs,
>
> As we continue our volunteer commitment to an outstanding organization,
> we
> gladly donate our resources to train and participate. Across the years,
> we
> have attended conferences for our wing, region and our national board,
> and
> the cost has slowly increased, mainly because of the economic posture of
> the
> time. However, after reviewing the current cost associated with our
> national
> board, personally I am voicing a concern of how many members can afford
> this
> astronomical cost. Registration - $205 per person plus room of more than
> $100+ per night (don't forget tax and tax); (plus the extra days lodging
> for
> a total of 5 nights if you stay for the entire event) then if you plan on
> attending our PAO Academy it is $45, and if you want to attend the FEMA
> course it is $20, then Incorporating the Medal of Honor Character
> Development Program into Character Development for $20 and Grant Writing
> for
> $10. We can easily add these costs to be exorbitant for many. I've
> attended many National Board Conferences, but never experienced such
> fees,
> and would like to know what the "registration" is suppose to cover, if
> not
> the work labs, and associated hand-outs.
>
> I would like to see a more reasonable cost for our National Board
> Conferences in the future. We do not necessarily need a place like Las
> Vegas, Washington or Atlanta, or the like, as we do not have the numbers
> of
> attendees to support that type of location as we once did
> with totals of upward of 2,000+ attendees. We have some locations
> that could support the size of our event, with less expense to our
> members,
> such as Charlotte, NC, and communities of that size across our country.
> Our overall cost has escalated to a level whereby one must truly set
> aside
> additional funds up to more than $1,000 to attend, and that does not
> include
> airline tickets, which are escalating too. I don't know how many of you
> join me in these sentiments, but we need a more economical platform for
> our
> national board conferences.
>
> One other comment, wouldn't it be nice to have a non-military speaker
> like
> Bill Cosby to entertain and inspire us to continue our service? As a
> volunteer organization, who gladly gives and gives so much to our
> communities and nation, I would hope that an individual like this would
> not
> charge, but to have airfare and other related costs (room and meals) to
> be
> covered to get him/her to be our speaker.
>
> Realizing our organizational funds are somewhat limited and reduced
> greatly
> across the board, we could certainly reduce our cost by holding our
> national
> conference in a less costly location, and it would increase the numbers
> who
> can afford to attend. It indeed is a great experience that everyone
> should
> have the opportunity to attend. The labs, breakout sessions, or
> workshops... what ever they are called, are always phenomenal. The
> opportunity to network with your fellow members and national staff is
> something that you will always remember as you also establish a contact
> and
> many times lasting friendships. If you can.....
> please attend as it is an experience that you'll want again and again.
>
> Thank you for your commitment and dedication to one of the best
> organizations of which you could ever be a part.
>
> Respectfully,
> Karen L. Copenhaver, Lt Col, CAP
> Deputy Director, Public Affairs
> MER
>
>
>
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> End of CAP-PAO Digest, Vol 64, Issue 1
> **************************************
>
--
Thanks!
Annette
Thank YOU for all YOU do in CAP!
Annette Carlson, Lt Col, CAP
Wing Public Affairs & Information Officer (PAO/PIO)
Civil Air Patrol Pennsylvania Wing
P: 412-731-4547
C: 215-262-9888
E: pao at pawg.cap.gov
www.pawg.cap.gov
www.GoCivilAirPatrol.com
CIVIL AIR PATROL Pennsylvania -
- Mission 4: Excellence! -
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